Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

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Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

leslie.hawthorn
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co


Other Places to Find Me:
Freenode: lh
Twitter: @lhawthorn

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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

Jack Park-2
Leslie, this is a truly important conversation to have.

To anticipate my thoughts, I have been working on evolving open source conversation platforms, using ElasticSearch. There are two aspects of my work (others are doing similar work):

1- conversation is structured. In fact it is not simply an indented outline conversation; each contribution (node) is akin to a tweet: a terse statement or question about a single subject. Thus, trees grow along subject lines. Each node is one of a question, a statement which can be an answer to a question or an amplification on another answer, or a statement which is a pro or con argument.

2- a topic map federates the topics in play, allows for relations among those topics. The same apparatus allows for crosslinking nodes in conversations simply because each conversation node is, in fact, its own topic in the topic map, but each node is *about* a different specific topic, say, "Yellow on startup". Thus, all that is knowable about "Yellow on startup", every conversation node, the manual pages, blog pages, whatever, is eventually captured by that specific node in the topic map (document in ES). I recently gave a talk which speaks to my views on topic maps in the context of using ElasticSearch in a much wider context [1].

To respond to your question, I think that Discourse is a pretty amazing product. It might be that a topic map can be added to it to round out the platform.  A topic map helps to increase the SNR (signal to noise ratio) in a sense similar to the way people jump to Wikipedia to do a quick check on what something is about. But more than that, a topic map behaves like a "geolocator" for all the topics in play in conversations.

It would seem that email interaction is one of those required capabilities. Doing structured conversations in email has not yet been shown to be easy. My observation has been that users of the ElasticSearch email list have been very disciplined, staying on topic; that's nowhere near the case in many other lists. But, does that translate to implementation as a structured branching-tree conversation?  Hard to say.

But, is email really required?  I notice that some people come to the email list first with a question about this or that exception; I've found it to be extremely useful to paste the exception in the search bar on my browser and get a great answer before coming to the list, though there have been (and still are) some sticky exceptions for which answers just are not available online.

Nevertheless, this is an important conversation to have, and not just for the ElasticSearch community; it seems to me there is a huge demand to improve the SNR for many online communities; I see ElasticSearch in that solution space.

Cheers
Jack


On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 8:36 AM, leslie.hawthorn <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co


Other Places to Find Me:
Freenode: lh
Twitter: @lhawthorn

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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

leslie.hawthorn
Thank you for sharing your feedback and experience with Discourse, Jack. From what I have seen, I agree that Discourse will allow our conversations to be a bit more structured and we're putting a lot of thought into how to structure the forum so that topic areas will be intuitive for our users to find and explore.

Folks, all feedback on this proposal welcome, encouraged and needed. We want to do what will work best for our community.

Cheers,
LH

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Jack Park <[hidden email]> wrote:
Leslie, this is a truly important conversation to have.

To anticipate my thoughts, I have been working on evolving open source conversation platforms, using ElasticSearch. There are two aspects of my work (others are doing similar work):

1- conversation is structured. In fact it is not simply an indented outline conversation; each contribution (node) is akin to a tweet: a terse statement or question about a single subject. Thus, trees grow along subject lines. Each node is one of a question, a statement which can be an answer to a question or an amplification on another answer, or a statement which is a pro or con argument.

2- a topic map federates the topics in play, allows for relations among those topics. The same apparatus allows for crosslinking nodes in conversations simply because each conversation node is, in fact, its own topic in the topic map, but each node is *about* a different specific topic, say, "Yellow on startup". Thus, all that is knowable about "Yellow on startup", every conversation node, the manual pages, blog pages, whatever, is eventually captured by that specific node in the topic map (document in ES). I recently gave a talk which speaks to my views on topic maps in the context of using ElasticSearch in a much wider context [1].

To respond to your question, I think that Discourse is a pretty amazing product. It might be that a topic map can be added to it to round out the platform.  A topic map helps to increase the SNR (signal to noise ratio) in a sense similar to the way people jump to Wikipedia to do a quick check on what something is about. But more than that, a topic map behaves like a "geolocator" for all the topics in play in conversations.

It would seem that email interaction is one of those required capabilities. Doing structured conversations in email has not yet been shown to be easy. My observation has been that users of the ElasticSearch email list have been very disciplined, staying on topic; that's nowhere near the case in many other lists. But, does that translate to implementation as a structured branching-tree conversation?  Hard to say.

But, is email really required?  I notice that some people come to the email list first with a question about this or that exception; I've found it to be extremely useful to paste the exception in the search bar on my browser and get a great answer before coming to the list, though there have been (and still are) some sticky exceptions for which answers just are not available online.

Nevertheless, this is an important conversation to have, and not just for the ElasticSearch community; it seems to me there is a huge demand to improve the SNR for many online communities; I see ElasticSearch in that solution space.

Cheers
Jack


On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 8:36 AM, leslie.hawthorn <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co


Other Places to Find Me:
Freenode: lh
Twitter: @lhawthorn

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Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co

Other Places to Find Me:
Freenode: lh
Twitter: @lhawthorn
Skype: mebelh
Voice: +31 20 794 7300



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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

Glen Smith
In reply to this post by leslie.hawthorn
+1 for recognizing the challenge, proactively approaching it, clearly articulating the issues, and proposing a seemingly beneficial solution.

Migrating off of gg would, IMO, be a good thing, for the reasons you stated, plus numerous consequences of the "unsupported" state. e.g. nobody is ever forever going
to invest anything in improving the user interface.

I confess to not having heard of discourse before. I like that it's GPL. Is the plan to use a Discourse-hosted instance, or for Elastic to launch its own?

In summary, +1.

Cheers.


On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 11:36:33 AM UTC-4, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at <a href="http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.discourse.org&amp;sa=D&amp;sntz=1&amp;usg=AFQjCNFQi_hMkuJsZ9_yWmYpibYIPzwS7w" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.discourse.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFQi_hMkuJsZ9_yWmYpibYIPzwS7w';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.discourse.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFQi_hMkuJsZ9_yWmYpibYIPzwS7w';return true;">http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - <a href="https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.discourse.org%2Ft%2Fmigrating-from-google-groups%2F24695\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHl-9vh2_cDaKkyAP0kNojpJoAtXg';return true;" onclick="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.discourse.org%2Ft%2Fmigrating-from-google-groups%2F24695\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHl-9vh2_cDaKkyAP0kNojpJoAtXg';return true;">https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
<a href="http://elastic.co/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Felastic.co%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGlfCfJXMcchOuOl8emXyBIJloHEA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Felastic.co%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGlfCfJXMcchOuOl8emXyBIJloHEA';return true;">http://elastic.co


Other Places to Find Me:
Freenode: lh
Twitter: @lhawthorn

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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

Jack Park-2
+1 to Glen's reply.
I would build on Glen's comment "nobody is ever forever going to invest anything in improving the user interface"  
with this question (to the entire group):

What should a user interface for group collaboration be capable of facilitating?

Cheers
Jack

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Glen Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 for recognizing the challenge, proactively approaching it, clearly articulating the issues, and proposing a seemingly beneficial solution.

Migrating off of gg would, IMO, be a good thing, for the reasons you stated, plus numerous consequences of the "unsupported" state. e.g. nobody is ever forever going
to invest anything in improving the user interface.

I confess to not having heard of discourse before. I like that it's GPL. Is the plan to use a Discourse-hosted instance, or for Elastic to launch its own?

In summary, +1.

Cheers.


On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 11:36:33 AM UTC-4, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co


Other Places to Find Me:
Freenode: lh
Twitter: @lhawthorn

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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

leslie.hawthorn
In reply to this post by Glen Smith
Thank you for your feedback, Glen! We're currently planning to use the hosted platform.

Folks, please keep the feedback coming. We value your opinion.

Cheers,
LH

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Glen Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 for recognizing the challenge, proactively approaching it, clearly articulating the issues, and proposing a seemingly beneficial solution.

Migrating off of gg would, IMO, be a good thing, for the reasons you stated, plus numerous consequences of the "unsupported" state. e.g. nobody is ever forever going
to invest anything in improving the user interface.

I confess to not having heard of discourse before. I like that it's GPL. Is the plan to use a Discourse-hosted instance, or for Elastic to launch its own?

In summary, +1.

Cheers.


On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 11:36:33 AM UTC-4, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co


Other Places to Find Me:
Freenode: lh
Twitter: @lhawthorn


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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

Matt Weber-2
+1 it looks really good.  Would the mailing list mode be enabled so we can still get everything in our inbox if desired?

Thanks,
Matt Weber  

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Leslie Hawthorn <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thank you for your feedback, Glen! We're currently planning to use the hosted platform.

Folks, please keep the feedback coming. We value your opinion.

Cheers,
LH

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Glen Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 for recognizing the challenge, proactively approaching it, clearly articulating the issues, and proposing a seemingly beneficial solution.

Migrating off of gg would, IMO, be a good thing, for the reasons you stated, plus numerous consequences of the "unsupported" state. e.g. nobody is ever forever going
to invest anything in improving the user interface.

I confess to not having heard of discourse before. I like that it's GPL. Is the plan to use a Discourse-hosted instance, or for Elastic to launch its own?

In summary, +1.

Cheers.


On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 11:36:33 AM UTC-4, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co


Other Places to Find Me:
Freenode: lh
Twitter: @lhawthorn


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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

tylerjl
Administrator
Matt,

I'm on the infrastructure team at Elastic - I've been putting Discourse through the wringer in terms of features, and we've confirmed that if you want to rely primarily on email, you'll be able to do so. Users on Discourse can freely choose which categories to be involved with, so if you log in to Discourse, subscribe to new topics on, say, elasticsearch and logstash, you can receive new topics via email and reply to them via email as well.

In this regard, the hope is that the move to Discourse will enable you to tune your preferences to keep interacting the same way you've always done (whether email or browser) while subscribing with finer preferences across projects that may be relevant to one another.

Cheers!
Tyler

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 3:06:55 PM UTC-6, Matt Weber wrote:
+1 it looks really good.  Would the mailing list mode be enabled so we can still get everything in our inbox if desired?

Thanks,
Matt Weber  

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Leslie Hawthorn <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="TSezY397mBUJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">leslie....@...> wrote:
Thank you for your feedback, Glen! We're currently planning to use the hosted platform.

Folks, please keep the feedback coming. We value your opinion.

Cheers,
LH

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Glen Smith <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="TSezY397mBUJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">gl...@...> wrote:
+1 for recognizing the challenge, proactively approaching it, clearly articulating the issues, and proposing a seemingly beneficial solution.

Migrating off of gg would, IMO, be a good thing, for the reasons you stated, plus numerous consequences of the "unsupported" state. e.g. nobody is ever forever going
to invest anything in improving the user interface.

I confess to not having heard of discourse before. I like that it's GPL. Is the plan to use a Discourse-hosted instance, or for Elastic to launch its own?

In summary, +1.

Cheers.


On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 11:36:33 AM UTC-4, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at <a href="http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.discourse.org&amp;sa=D&amp;sntz=1&amp;usg=AFQjCNFQi_hMkuJsZ9_yWmYpibYIPzwS7w" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.discourse.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFQi_hMkuJsZ9_yWmYpibYIPzwS7w';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.discourse.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFQi_hMkuJsZ9_yWmYpibYIPzwS7w';return true;">http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - <a href="https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.discourse.org%2Ft%2Fmigrating-from-google-groups%2F24695\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHl-9vh2_cDaKkyAP0kNojpJoAtXg';return true;" onclick="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.discourse.org%2Ft%2Fmigrating-from-google-groups%2F24695\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHl-9vh2_cDaKkyAP0kNojpJoAtXg';return true;">https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
<a href="http://elastic.co/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Felastic.co%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGlfCfJXMcchOuOl8emXyBIJloHEA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Felastic.co%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGlfCfJXMcchOuOl8emXyBIJloHEA';return true;">http://elastic.co


Other Places to Find Me:
Freenode: lh
Twitter: @lhawthorn


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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

Matt Weber-2
Thanks Tyler!  This sounds perfect for how I use the mailing list.  I quickly scan through the list in my inbox and reply directly for short responses.  If I need to write up something more detailed then I jump on the website to do so.

Thanks,
Matt Weber


On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 3:33 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Matt,

I'm on the infrastructure team at Elastic - I've been putting Discourse through the wringer in terms of features, and we've confirmed that if you want to rely primarily on email, you'll be able to do so. Users on Discourse can freely choose which categories to be involved with, so if you log in to Discourse, subscribe to new topics on, say, elasticsearch and logstash, you can receive new topics via email and reply to them via email as well.

In this regard, the hope is that the move to Discourse will enable you to tune your preferences to keep interacting the same way you've always done (whether email or browser) while subscribing with finer preferences across projects that may be relevant to one another.

Cheers!
Tyler

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 3:06:55 PM UTC-6, Matt Weber wrote:
+1 it looks really good.  Would the mailing list mode be enabled so we can still get everything in our inbox if desired?

Thanks,
Matt Weber  

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Leslie Hawthorn <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thank you for your feedback, Glen! We're currently planning to use the hosted platform.

Folks, please keep the feedback coming. We value your opinion.

Cheers,
LH

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Glen Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 for recognizing the challenge, proactively approaching it, clearly articulating the issues, and proposing a seemingly beneficial solution.

Migrating off of gg would, IMO, be a good thing, for the reasons you stated, plus numerous consequences of the "unsupported" state. e.g. nobody is ever forever going
to invest anything in improving the user interface.

I confess to not having heard of discourse before. I like that it's GPL. Is the plan to use a Discourse-hosted instance, or for Elastic to launch its own?

In summary, +1.

Cheers.


On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 11:36:33 AM UTC-4, leslie.hawthorn wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co


Other Places to Find Me:
Freenode: lh
Twitter: @lhawthorn


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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

Magnus Bäck
In reply to this post by tylerjl
On Friday, April 10, 2015 at 00:33 CEST, [hidden email] wrote:

> I'm on the infrastructure team at Elastic - I've been putting
> Discourse through the wringer in terms of features, and we've
> confirmed that if you want to rely primarily on email, you'll
> be able to do so. Users on Discourse can freely choose which
> categories to be involved with, so if you log in to Discourse,
> subscribe to new topics on, say, elasticsearch and logstash,
> you can receive new topics via email and reply to them via
> email as well.

Email notifications for new topics is something I've taken for
granted, but what about updates of existing topics? I'm obviously
not only interested in new questions but also responses to old
ones (without me having to explicitly subscribe to each thread).
Judging by https://meta.discourse.org/t/email-notifications/1520
this shouldn't be a problem but that thread is more than a year
old.

> In this regard, the hope is that the move to Discourse will enable
> you to tune your preferences to keep interacting the same way you've
> always done (whether email or browser) while subscribing with finer
> preferences across projects that may be relevant to one another.

That's what I hope too. Having to do any kind of periodic polling
to keep up would be a drastic step backwards to the pre-Usenet
days, circa 1979.

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[hidden email] | Sony Mobile Communications

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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

tylerjl
Administrator
Point definitely understood. The functionality you're describing is fully supported in Discourse - once you've told Discourse which categories you want to be included on (whether at the new topic level or post-by-post), you'll be able to interact completely by email if that's your preferred method (including seeing all new posts, replying over email, and creating new topics via email.)

We definitely don't want to backwards in terms of functionality for everyone, so we're working to make sure those features work as expected. :)

On Friday, April 10, 2015 at 12:31:14 AM UTC-6, Magnus Bäck wrote:
On Friday, April 10, 2015 at 00:33 CEST, <a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="Q9dVoUdudncJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">ty...@... wrote:

> I'm on the infrastructure team at Elastic - I've been putting
> Discourse through the wringer in terms of features, and we've
> confirmed that if you want to rely primarily on email, you'll
> be able to do so. Users on Discourse can freely choose which
> categories to be involved with, so if you log in to Discourse,
> subscribe to new topics on, say, elasticsearch and logstash,
> you can receive new topics via email and reply to them via
> email as well.

Email notifications for new topics is something I've taken for
granted, but what about updates of existing topics? I'm obviously
not only interested in new questions but also responses to old
ones (without me having to explicitly subscribe to each thread).
Judging by <a href="https://meta.discourse.org/t/email-notifications/1520" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.discourse.org%2Ft%2Femail-notifications%2F1520\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEx2vozGFZIMLyNwI39zSjqX1X3-w';return true;" onclick="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.discourse.org%2Ft%2Femail-notifications%2F1520\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEx2vozGFZIMLyNwI39zSjqX1X3-w';return true;">https://meta.discourse.org/t/email-notifications/1520
this shouldn't be a problem but that thread is more than a year
old.

> In this regard, the hope is that the move to Discourse will enable
> you to tune your preferences to keep interacting the same way you've
> always done (whether email or browser) while subscribing with finer
> preferences across projects that may be relevant to one another.

That's what I hope too. Having to do any kind of periodic polling
to keep up would be a drastic step backwards to the pre-Usenet
days, circa 1979.

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<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="Q9dVoUdudncJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">magnu...@... | Sony Mobile Communications

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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

Ivan Brusic
In reply to this post by leslie.hawthorn

As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.

For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the mailing list since everything is archived.

Ivan

On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co


Other Places to Find Me:
Freenode: lh
Twitter: @lhawthorn

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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

leslie.hawthorn
Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.

There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would always be archived there as well.

Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?

Folks, please keep the feedback coming!

Cheers,
LH

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic <[hidden email]> wrote:

As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.

For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the mailing list since everything is archived.

Ivan

On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co


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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

Ivan Brusic

I should clarify that I have no issues moving to Discourse, as long as instantaneous email interaction is preserved, just wanted to point out that I see no issues with the mailing lists.

The question is moot anyways since the change will happen regardless of our inputs.

I hope we can subscribe to Discourse mailing lists without needing an account.

Cheers,

Ivan

On Apr 13, 2015 7:13 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.

There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would always be archived there as well.

Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?

Folks, please keep the feedback coming!

Cheers,
LH

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic <[hidden email]> wrote:

As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.

For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the mailing list since everything is archived.

Ivan

On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co


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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

leslie.hawthorn


On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Ivan Brusic <[hidden email]> wrote:

I should clarify that I have no issues moving to Discourse, as long as instantaneous email interaction is preserved, just wanted to point out that I see no issues with the mailing lists.

Understood. 

The question is moot anyways since the change will happen regardless of our inputs.

Actually, I'm maintaining our Forums pre-launch checklist where there's a line item for "don't move forward based on community feedback". I respectfully disagree with your assessment that the change will happen regardless of input from the community. We asked for feedback for a reason. :)

I hope we can subscribe to Discourse mailing lists without needing an account.

You'll need an account, but it's a one-time login to set up your preferences and then read/interact solely via email.  

Cheers,
LH

Cheers,

Ivan

On Apr 13, 2015 7:13 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.

There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would always be archived there as well.

Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?

Folks, please keep the feedback coming!

Cheers,
LH

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic <[hidden email]> wrote:

As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.

For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the mailing list since everything is archived.

Ivan

On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co


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Other Places to Find Me:
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Twitter: @lhawthorn
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Voice: +31 20 794 7300



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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

Itamar Syn-Hershko
In reply to this post by leslie.hawthorn
I believe the biggest impact would be on responsiveness

As another long-timer, and someone who often responds to questions, I will probably cease to do that if the forum would move to Discourse simply because it lacks the "push" style notifications on new questions. Right now if a question title in my inbox catches my eye I'll quickly read it and respond. I'm quite sure this pattern (which I'm sure I'm not the only one relying on) will go away once you move to Discourse and the forum responsiveness with it.

Just my 2 cents.

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Lucene.NET committer and PMC member

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Leslie Hawthorn <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.

There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would always be archived there as well.

Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?

Folks, please keep the feedback coming!

Cheers,
LH

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic <[hidden email]> wrote:

As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.

For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the mailing list since everything is archived.

Ivan

On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co


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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

Glen Smith
 it lacks the "push" style notifications on new questions

That doesn't seem to be correct to me. Does "send me an email for every new post" not cover what you want?




On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 1:42:50 PM UTC-4, Itamar Syn-Hershko wrote:
I believe the biggest impact would be on responsiveness

As another long-timer, and someone who often responds to questions, I will probably cease to do that if the forum would move to Discourse simply because it lacks the "push" style notifications on new questions. Right now if a question title in my inbox catches my eye I'll quickly read it and respond. I'm quite sure this pattern (which I'm sure I'm not the only one relying on) will go away once you move to Discourse and the forum responsiveness with it.

Just my 2 cents.

--

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<a href="http://code972.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcode972.com%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNH_0ahlIREvy79st9arcLSClMBpEw';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fcode972.com%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNH_0ahlIREvy79st9arcLSClMBpEw';return true;">http://code972.com | <a href="https://twitter.com/synhershko" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fsynhershko\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGBL9AV5Pm4wDx-6dKwWnd_Vfn1gQ';return true;" onclick="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fsynhershko\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGBL9AV5Pm4wDx-6dKwWnd_Vfn1gQ';return true;">@synhershko
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On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Leslie Hawthorn <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="sRzEiFtELlIJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">leslie....@...> wrote:
Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.

There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would always be archived there as well.

Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?

Folks, please keep the feedback coming!

Cheers,
LH

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="sRzEiFtELlIJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">iv...@...> wrote:

As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.

For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the mailing list since everything is archived.

Ivan

On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="sRzEiFtELlIJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">leslie....@...> wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at <a href="http://www.discourse.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.discourse.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFQi_hMkuJsZ9_yWmYpibYIPzwS7w';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.discourse.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFQi_hMkuJsZ9_yWmYpibYIPzwS7w';return true;">http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - <a href="https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.discourse.org%2Ft%2Fmigrating-from-google-groups%2F24695\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHl-9vh2_cDaKkyAP0kNojpJoAtXg';return true;" onclick="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.discourse.org%2Ft%2Fmigrating-from-google-groups%2F24695\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHl-9vh2_cDaKkyAP0kNojpJoAtXg';return true;">https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
<a href="http://elastic.co/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Felastic.co%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGlfCfJXMcchOuOl8emXyBIJloHEA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Felastic.co%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGlfCfJXMcchOuOl8emXyBIJloHEA';return true;">http://elastic.co


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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

Itamar Syn-Hershko
Fair play, will check that out, assuming you can reply to that email to respond?

--

Itamar Syn-Hershko
http://code972.com | @synhershko
Freelance Developer & Consultant
Lucene.NET committer and PMC member

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Glen Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
 it lacks the "push" style notifications on new questions

That doesn't seem to be correct to me. Does "send me an email for every new post" not cover what you want?




On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 1:42:50 PM UTC-4, Itamar Syn-Hershko wrote:
I believe the biggest impact would be on responsiveness

As another long-timer, and someone who often responds to questions, I will probably cease to do that if the forum would move to Discourse simply because it lacks the "push" style notifications on new questions. Right now if a question title in my inbox catches my eye I'll quickly read it and respond. I'm quite sure this pattern (which I'm sure I'm not the only one relying on) will go away once you move to Discourse and the forum responsiveness with it.

Just my 2 cents.

--

Itamar Syn-Hershko
http://code972.com | @synhershko
Freelance Developer & Consultant
Lucene.NET committer and PMC member

On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Leslie Hawthorn <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.

There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would always be archived there as well.

Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?

Folks, please keep the feedback coming!

Cheers,
LH

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic <[hidden email]> wrote:

As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.

For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the mailing list since everything is archived.

Ivan

On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co


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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

joergprante@gmail.com
In reply to this post by leslie.hawthorn
I know I can not influence the decision for Discourse, so here are just my 2 ¢.

The move should also consider that users who register with the new forum should have the right to export their own contributions to download them similar to Google takeaway function for Gmail / G+ account. 

Also, it would be a an advance to add a license note, compatible to the Open Data Commons License http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/  to the user contributions. This would ensure long term archiving / harvesting / text-and-data-mining rights by the community. No one knows which system comes after Discourse.

If such licensing terms could be applied, I would find a file dump service very useful. Discourse allows a Postgresql dump of a forum, and I would appreciate regular data dumps that are made available to the public. Maybe to the Internet Archive, like https://archive.org/details/stackexchange

I support all suggestions which prefer forum access by email. I use emails since 1989 and I can not make friends with systems that remind me of toys and eyecandy like Google Wave http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Wave and offer "likes" like Facebook. I don't need that crap.

Best,

Jörg


On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Leslie Hawthorn <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Ivan Brusic <[hidden email]> wrote:

I should clarify that I have no issues moving to Discourse, as long as instantaneous email interaction is preserved, just wanted to point out that I see no issues with the mailing lists.

Understood. 

The question is moot anyways since the change will happen regardless of our inputs.

Actually, I'm maintaining our Forums pre-launch checklist where there's a line item for "don't move forward based on community feedback". I respectfully disagree with your assessment that the change will happen regardless of input from the community. We asked for feedback for a reason. :)

I hope we can subscribe to Discourse mailing lists without needing an account.

You'll need an account, but it's a one-time login to set up your preferences and then read/interact solely via email.  

Cheers,
LH

Cheers,

Ivan

On Apr 13, 2015 7:13 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.

There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would always be archived there as well.

Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?

Folks, please keep the feedback coming!

Cheers,
LH

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic <[hidden email]> wrote:

As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.

For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the mailing list since everything is archived.

Ivan

On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
http://elastic.co


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Re: Evaluating Moving to Discourse - Feedback Wanted

tylerjl
Administrator

Itamar:

Correct - replying to topics via email is supported. We're trying very hard to ensure that people who rely primarily on email aren't left out, so we've double checked to ensure that if you want to interact primarily through email, you'll definitely be able to (receiving all new posts via email, replying to those via email, et cetera.)

Jörg:

Some of those reasons you've mentioned are motivating factors for the move to an open-source platform like Discourse. Some features like the ability to download your own posts are already built-in, such as the feature shown below:


In addition, unlike google groups, Discourse has a very comprehensive API that anyone would be able to leverage to export data however they would like. And again, if email is the preferred method, you could always subscribe to everything and just rely on email archives as well.

On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 12:08:21 PM UTC-6, Jörg Prante wrote:
I know I can not influence the decision for Discourse, so here are just my 2 ¢.

The move should also consider that users who register with the new forum should have the right to export their own contributions to download them similar to Google takeaway function for Gmail / G+ account. 

Also, it would be a an advance to add a license note, compatible to the Open Data Commons License <a href="http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fopendatacommons.org%2Flicenses%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHuNgsCx3FMHwl2Ualrw0iRbi5oGA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fopendatacommons.org%2Flicenses%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHuNgsCx3FMHwl2Ualrw0iRbi5oGA';return true;">http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/  to the user contributions. This would ensure long term archiving / harvesting / text-and-data-mining rights by the community. No one knows which system comes after Discourse.

If such licensing terms could be applied, I would find a file dump service very useful. Discourse allows a Postgresql dump of a forum, and I would appreciate regular data dumps that are made available to the public. Maybe to the Internet Archive, like <a href="https://archive.org/details/stackexchange" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fdetails%2Fstackexchange\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEr_9jF0xja6G0q3R6o6AFznyuXfw';return true;" onclick="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fdetails%2Fstackexchange\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEr_9jF0xja6G0q3R6o6AFznyuXfw';return true;">https://archive.org/details/stackexchange

I support all suggestions which prefer forum access by email. I use emails since 1989 and I can not make friends with systems that remind me of toys and eyecandy like Google Wave <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Wave" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FApache_Wave\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNG5Vq8ShrNJGTthvV8xd31nrEFS6g';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FApache_Wave\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNG5Vq8ShrNJGTthvV8xd31nrEFS6g';return true;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Wave and offer "likes" like Facebook. I don't need that crap.

Best,

Jörg


On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Leslie Hawthorn <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="ACsfFxGO4cIJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">leslie....@...> wrote:


On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Ivan Brusic <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="ACsfFxGO4cIJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">iv...@...> wrote:

I should clarify that I have no issues moving to Discourse, as long as instantaneous email interaction is preserved, just wanted to point out that I see no issues with the mailing lists.

Understood. 

The question is moot anyways since the change will happen regardless of our inputs.

Actually, I'm maintaining our Forums pre-launch checklist where there's a line item for "don't move forward based on community feedback". I respectfully disagree with your assessment that the change will happen regardless of input from the community. We asked for feedback for a reason. :)

I hope we can subscribe to Discourse mailing lists without needing an account.

You'll need an account, but it's a one-time login to set up your preferences and then read/interact solely via email.  

Cheers,
LH

Cheers,

Ivan

On Apr 13, 2015 7:13 PM, "Leslie Hawthorn" <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="ACsfFxGO4cIJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">leslie....@...> wrote:
Thanks for your feedback, Ivan.

There's no plan to remove threads from the forums, so information would always be archived there as well.

Does that impact your thoughts on moving to Discourse?

Folks, please keep the feedback coming!

Cheers,
LH

On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 12:09 AM, Ivan Brusic <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="ACsfFxGO4cIJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">iv...@...> wrote:

As one of the oldest and most frequent users (before my sabbatical) of the mailing list, I just wanted to say that I never had an issue with it. It works. As long as I could continue using only email, I am happy.

For realtime communication, there is the IRC channel. If prefer the mailing list since everything is archived.

Ivan

On Apr 2, 2015 5:36 PM, "leslie.hawthorn" <<a href="javascript:" target="_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto="ACsfFxGO4cIJ" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='javascript:';return true;" onclick="this.href='javascript:';return true;">leslie....@...> wrote:
Hello everyone,

As we’ve begun to scale up development on three different open source projects, we’ve found Google Groups to be a difficult solution for dealing with all of our needs for community support. We’ve got multiple mailing lists going, which can be confusing for new folks trying to figure out where to go to ask a question.

We’ve also found our lists are becoming noisy in the “good problem to have” kind of way. As we’ve seen more user adoption, and across such a wide variety of use cases, we’re getting widely different types of questions asked. For example, I can imagine that folks not using our Python client would rather not be distracted with emails about it.

There’s also a few other strikes against Groups as a tool, such as the fact that it is no longer a supported product by Google, it provides no API hooks and it is not available for users in China.

We’ve evaluated several options and we’re currently considering shuttering the elasticsearch-user and logstash-users Google Groups in favor of a Discourse forum. You can read more about Discourse at <a href="http://www.discourse.org" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.discourse.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFQi_hMkuJsZ9_yWmYpibYIPzwS7w';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.discourse.org\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFQi_hMkuJsZ9_yWmYpibYIPzwS7w';return true;">http://www.discourse.org

We feel Discourse will allow us to provide a better experience for all of our users for a few reasons:

* More fine grained conversation topics = less noise and better targeted discussions. e.g. we can offer a forum for each language client, individual logstash plugin or for each city to plan user group meetings, etc.

* Facilitates discussions that are not generally happening on list now, such as best practices by use case or tips from moving to development to production

* Easier for folks who are purely end users - and less used to getting peer support on a mailing list - to get help when they need it

Obviously, Discourse does not function the exact same way as a mailing list - however, email interaction with Discourse is supported and will continue to allow you to participate in discussions over email (though there are some small issues related to in-line replies. [0])

We’re working with the Discourse team now as part of evaluating this transition, and we know they’re working to resolve this particular issue. We’re also still determining how Discourse will handle our needs for both user and list archive migration, and we’ll know the precise details of how that would work soon. (We’ll share when we have them.)

The final goal would be to move Google Groups to read-only archives, and cut over to Discourse completely for community support discussions.

We’re looking at making the cut over in ~30 days from today, but obviously that’s subject to the feedback we receive from all of you. We’re sharing this information to set expectations about time frame for making the switch. It’s not set in stone. Our highest priority is to ensure effective migration of our list archives and subscribers, which may mean a longer time horizon for deploying Discourse, as well.

In the meantime, though, we wanted to communicate early and often and get your feedback. Would this change make your life better? Worse? Meh?

Please share your thoughts with us so we can evaluate your feedback. We don’t take this switch lightly, and we want to understand how it will impact your overall workflow and experience.

We’ll make regular updates to the list responding to incoming feedback and be completely transparent about how our thought processes evolve based on it.

Thanks in advance!

[0] - <a href="https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.discourse.org%2Ft%2Fmigrating-from-google-groups%2F24695\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHl-9vh2_cDaKkyAP0kNojpJoAtXg';return true;" onclick="this.href='https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.discourse.org%2Ft%2Fmigrating-from-google-groups%2F24695\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHl-9vh2_cDaKkyAP0kNojpJoAtXg';return true;">https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-google-groups/24695


Cheers,
LH

Leslie Hawthorn
Director of Developer Relations
<a href="http://elastic.co/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" onmousedown="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Felastic.co%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGlfCfJXMcchOuOl8emXyBIJloHEA';return true;" onclick="this.href='http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Felastic.co%2F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGlfCfJXMcchOuOl8emXyBIJloHEA';return true;">http://elastic.co


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